Thomas Hunt, Community Based Youth Worker, Kirikiriroa Hamilton

“If you are in those higher places and you are looking at the development of young people, I think the change here is keeping youth workers here for the long-term. If we are talking about short-term contracts or even any contract that might be short-term or long-term, it still says that there is an end of a contract. That there might be a chance that there will be no youth worker here next year. There might be no youth worker here in two months. But to start a journey with a young person and to just disappear in a month is crazy. Our young people are looking for the care, they are looking for the love, they find a safe place and all of a sudden have found vulnerability here and the next week that youth worker is gone. We lose so many good youth workers to other kinds of work that pay better and have permanent roles, even car cleaners get better pay and permanent jobs. How are we, as youth workers, meant to walk alongside our young people who need us for the long journey if we cannot get the pay and the permanent full time employment security to look after ourselves and our whanau by doing this mahi? It's just crazy…” Thomas Hunt, Community Youth Worker and Youth Work Trainer. 

Western Community Centre is at the beating heart of Nawton, Kirikiriroa. Thomas Hunt is the youth worker here and has been holding space for and running youth programs with local rangatahi for over six years. Not only does he work on the ground as a youth worker, he also trains new upcoming youth workers for Praxis, the Youth Development Training organisation here in Aotearoa. As a professional who holds great respect and mana within the youth and social development sector, Lots of Little Fires is here today not only to shine a light on the beautiful mahi and the way in which Thomas serves his community, but to hear his thoughts on the current state of youth development, what challenges exist in his community and what needs to be done for things to improve going forward.

Thomas and I are sitting chatting in Thomas' office before the interview and as Murdoch comes in to see where we are going to be filming today he instantly laughs saying… ‘Omg it’s tiny in here…damn this will be interesting (tricky haha) to set up and film!”

Thomas’s office is tiny! He has his desk full of paperwork, lots of bits of gear scattered around the shelves to use for activities, a few chairs for the boys to sit on, a gaming station, a section to record vocals and a barbering set up. It is crazy how small this space is and yet how much goodness and action stems from here. It reminds me of all so common reality that where the real mahi and change is taking place, there is the most limited space and resource to really develop and grow its potential.

Thomas explains that you have to make use of what you've got with community youth work,

“This is my space of sanctuary for our young people but It's more about what we do with it. It just is what it is and we love it, it looks busy and it's good.”

Talking about some of the things they get up to here and what activities they do, Tom lists off a whole load of things that the boys like to do and just finds a way to provide those opportunities and access to them.

We've got heaps of snorkel gear and stuff like that. Some of our boys are into kickboxing as well, so we've got a whole heap of gear for that in here as well… gloves, we've got wraps, we've got kick pads, tiger pads. We also have barbering as well. I cut hair for them, just trying to keep them looking fresh. Barber shops like charging a certain amount for kids that don't really have that much or aren't that fortunate to be able to go and get a haircut every week. I mean there might be times where they can save up for a haircut, but they can come here for a free one and they’ll get a free haircut anytime. Majority of the time most young people would look scruffy but wait for the time and urge for the time that they can go and get a fresh haircut. And I do think that's part of image and how it makes them feel on a day-to-day basis. But yeah we've got barbering, we've got a studio as well where we try and get them in here, write some lyrics and all the lyrics and music stuff has just always got to be based around their life story, really give them an opportunity to share their story. And it might be through music or it could be through graffiti, rapping or singing, playing the guitar… any form of art that they feel like they can share their story with is good. We just have to be the driver for it, gotta keep pushing it.”

The boys are fun, they come in and just sit around doing their thing, talking about their day, a few are gaming, basically just being boys. It's just like hanging at someone's house with a cool uncle who sets the tone with wholesome values and provides fun and positive activities and spaces for them to engage in but fully lets them be their authentic selves.

I ask Thomas to set the scene and tell us a bit about the boys who come here and what they do.

“So yeah, we have kids from different backgrounds. They might be from different kura and it's just about coming here, finding common ground. Good friendships are made here, good friendships are leaving here and it's about seeing each other outside of this building and being able to say ‘chur’, ‘what's up’ to each other. So everyone's got different backgrounds, different stories. It's about blending them together here and building positive experiences.”

He goes on to describe the youth leadership programme he runs during the evenings and holidays that is helping to grow local young leaders who can in turn help grow the number of positive role models in the community.

“Toa Whakapuawai is created on the basis of creating young leaders, letting them lead groups, letting them lead sports groups, become a captain and so on. How well can you give out instructions? How well can you set up a program and talk? These boys here are now stepping into senior roles of the group now and there's heaps of juniors that are keen to come in and how do we look after these, the young people as a collective. So it won't just be me looking after them, now my boys that I have been working with are going to be leading the way, tuakana teina, looking after the young people with also me trying to create all of the development stuff for them.”

Thomas tells me about the boys who have now left the programme, many of whom now have their own families and jobs, continue to stay in touch with him and have become friends.

“Yeah they come back in now and then to check up on me haha, tell me their news, share their achievements or ask for some advice maybe. I love it, it's really special. If I ever need to do something round the house at home then a couple of the boys will normally come help me out. Just keeping the connections strong and communicating even after they’ve left. Yeah it's good.”

There is something about Thomas and the calmness he exudes. He is tau but also has a great sense of humor and loves to laugh. I ask him about why he thinks the boys come and what it is about the place and him that makes them want to be here.

“There's always at least five young people here at a time and it's just about creating space for them to feel like they can come in, get some kai, relax and if you've got something on your chest, let it out. But I think yeah, creating a safe space for them to share their story and what's happening, in front of each other as well, is something that's pretty big.  It is frowned upon if you are feeling a bit mae mae, a bit hurt about something, and you mention it in front of certain people that those guys can be like, ‘hey, that's weak bro, why are you being like that?’, so I feel like we've created a safe enough space for our boys to speak up and then with the other boys to kind of step in and go, ‘oh bro, that's hard. I don't know what you're feeling, but that sounds pretty hard’ so to honor their story, not just shut it down.”

We all know how hard it is to get teenage boys to talk, to open up and share how they are feeling. Anyone who has their own kids or works with them knows just how difficult that can be but how incredibly important it is. I ask Thomas how he achieves this and why the boys feel safe to talk to him and each other.

“Yeah, for them to trust me, I have to show vulnerability first, and that's how it always should be. If I can be vulnerable, they'll want to be vulnerable in front of me. It's the same thing as if you hold energy. If I run an activity and I create energy and then I hand it over to you and you don't show energy, all the kids are going to be like, ‘well, if he's not going to do it, then I'm not going to do it’. So we have to try and create consistent vulnerability in any stages of how they're feeling or any part of their life. I have to show vulnerability so that they can trust me to be vulnerable in front of me as well. And then that's where the good outcomes come from.”

I find Thomas inspiring, anyone would. He is calm, wise and reflective yet an absolute doer who lives and works his passion for youth in an ever changing and often chaotic environment. I want to know what his journey into youth work was.

“Well I was working as a foreman for a fencing company. I was making good money and doing well. But something was missing for me. I've always had a passion to hang out with young people and to help them succeed in life. I feel like I started thinking seriously about doing youth work properly where myself and my wife had this prophetic word prayed over us through church. I knew of this place called Praxis and I went and studied there. I did their diploma in youth development paper and it's real practical learning and that's probably what I needed because trying to re-study again at 26 was definitely a big jump from high school in terms of study. From there, I was in Nawton on my street just hanging out with kids in the community, just doing random activities and stuff for them. We’d come down here to the center and play down here and Neil Tolan, the Western Community Centre Manager,  just popped out one day and mentioned, ‘Hey, you fellas could use the center and stuff to do stuff here if you wanted?’. That led to a job and I’ve been here ever since running all the youth programmes for this area.”

What stands out with Thomas’s journey into youth work is how it was such a natural extension of something he was already doing as part of his own life anyway. He didn't apply for an advertised job or come in from outside the community. He was just making things happen on his own accord and being the person the kids in his community needed, to make their lives better and just connect with them. I asked Thomas about his own life growing up and if that helps him relate to the young people he serves.

“So I grew up in Rotorua, It was a rundown community and I will say that but back then I probably would've said that proudly. I probably got in trouble too much and had to have a turnaround somewhere. All my friends, all my cousins were in exactly the same boat and my dad wanted to change, so he got us out of there. We had no one really to champion us. I guess we just didn't have any people or programs to fall back on.”

Thomas relates to a lot of the boys he sees and works with in the community. The shared lived experiences and understanding their daily realities is crucial, he believes, for him to really appreciate and know what’s going on for them. Knowing what it is like to grow up not having money or having opportunities to go and do the activities you want to do and experience things outside of your community is a key driver in his programme.

Asking Tom what is his deep lying purpose for working youth he says simply,

“I want to be able to show them that there's always better ways, there's always better options. My drivers to be the person that I never had when I was growing up, to I guess be in their corner, cheerleading them. If they take those steps forward, cheerlead them. If they take a step backwards, cheerlead them on, but focus on their main goal.”

Neil Tolan, center manager, also started off his community mahi in youth work. He explains how it is the way in which Thomas engages and does the things that many of us take for granted that really make the difference with the boys he works with.

“I think there's that shared experience with young people. It's those adventures where it is the drive too and from places, it is getting hot chips from the takeaways, those little moments where he can speak into their lives. It's that kind of constant encouragement into them. The goal setting moving forward, having someone they can have a joke with, have a laugh with, someone that can help them work out, do weights. He does music with them. Just a whole wide range of stuff and that knowledge. He's also brought lots of guest speakers in and presented those to the young people as well, giving them opportunities.”

Tom is so grateful to Neil for giving him the opportunity and support to work here at Western Community Centre and is incredibly humble about the impact he has here. It is funny as Neil fanboys Tom and Tom fanboys Neil in their respective mahi and impact in the community! It is so lovely to see and hear, they are an amazing team and with so much shared wisdom, experience and perspective on the sector.

Because of the extensive level experience and understanding held by Tom and Neil, we delve into what some of the barriers and challenges are that systematically affect the effectiveness, impact and support of the youth development sector. There is so much noise politically right now with the new government championing boot camps and the tough on youth approach. I know this is a big topic and Tom takes a deep breath as he begins to articulate his thoughts.

‘The idea that these boot camps are a new approach and will be effective is just crazy’ says Tom.‘They have been done before, there is nothing new about them’.

I ask him, from his own lived experience and as a professional youth worker if they work.

‘Do they work? No they don’t work. The journey with the type of young people that they are talking about is long term. There are no quick fixes or short term approaches that work. It is the consistent, proactive, positive youth development that works in a community that enables them to develop while also being around the support systems they need. Nothing good and long lived comes from quick fix solutions.”

From my own experience working with young people I wholeheartedly agree. The challenge I propose, to play devil's advocate, is to ask, ‘well under the previous government, youth crime and disengagement went really high, so what is that does work or what is it that they got wrong?’

Tom looks more serious now and gives an in-depth answer, that I believe, may be a pivotal perspective that many in society, especially those in the higher echelons of power and government, have as a massive blind spot in their thinking and understanding of the issues at hand.

‘Teachers, Nurses, Social Workers…they are all here on permanent well-paid contracts. They always have been and always will be. Youth Workers, especially community-based youth workers like me, only ever get 20 or 25 hour max contracts on pay that does not equate close to those of a teacher or a social worker. Youth work is preventative by nature, yet is afforded the least security and support of all the social sector jobs that work with young people. If they are serious, the change here is permanent contracts on a pay that allows us the ability to stay in the work and support the needs of our own life and whanau. They are setting us up to fail from the get go.”

Tom is deadly serious as he talks. He has the perspective and experience where he feels he should speak up for the youth development sector.

"We lose so many good youth workers every year because the pay and contracts are too low and short term for them to live off and get the basic needs we all need. These are people with incredible skills who leave and go into jobs where they make way better money and have ongoing job security. You can’t blame them. So you get a constantly underfunded, high turnover, burnout and isolation of a youth worker sector that operates on the bare minimum to achieve these long term massive life changing results when only on yearly or two yearly part time contracts…it's crazy. No business that wanted to achieve great results would set themselves up to fail like that.”

I reflect with Tom on what he says about the long journey with young people and the trust and vulnerability that leads to the change.

“To start a journey with a young person, who is looking for the love, looking the connection and trust, to find that and then for that youth worker to be gone in two months is just crazy. It adds to the constant cycle of negative experiences that these young people have of a positive adult role model walking out on them and they just give up hope. When our young people, who need that wider community support to make good choices in life and gain access to positive opportunities they otherwise wouldn’t get at home, know there is a constant and safe place for them, they all gravitate towards it and they make positive change collectively and gradually. But it is long term work, a long term journey, it is not quick and neat and tidy.”

Hearing Tom speak rings so many bells in my mind of how policy and processes are designed with the wrong people sitting at the table to inform and ensure the policies will actually work for the people who carry out the mahi.

“You can make more money as a car cleaner and get more hours doing that, so what is the incentive for amazing youth workers to choose our career, even when they care passionately about youth, they deserve to be paid equitably for the work they do and so they seek that work elsewhere. I am just so blessed and lucky because I work here 25 hours a week and 25 hours a week for Praxis training new Youth Workers. Most youth workers have to hold down two or three jobs just to make ends meet. That's just normal for a youth worker”

It is really quite clear, if we want to look after and grow our young people who need that extra support and care, the youth Workers who work with them need to be supported and championed with the pay and contracts that enable them to commit to the long journey and get those long term positive changes we all want to see.

“Something else that people need to understand is that our young people will always take steps back. They will always make bad choices no matter who they work with, what programme they are in or who they hang out with. The baggage they bring and the lived experiences they have does not allow for smooth and simple quick changes, that's just the nature of youth work. So the expectations of what our young people can achieve and how long that takes needs to be better understood and we should not be assessed on short term outcomes, numbers and data that shows how we are improving and spending the money.  These are real people, many from very difficult home lives, on their own journey and in their own time. Our job is to walk alongside them and set them up for success with consistent and collective support where they can find their own way to a better life and future. What kind of youth worker would be if we gave up on them when they went wrong? We need to be able to be here for the long term. To adapt, catch that kid, get them back in the right place again and keep driving forward. Young people will always need people here to help and guide them and we want to be here too, we just need the right support to be able to do that…we just need the same long term, consistent support as youth workers that reflects the long-term high-quality support we give our young people.”

Listening to Tom speak I just wish we had a government minister sitting here with us to hear this all from his mouth, in his tiny office with these boys around. It makes me wonder if they even know what the right questions to ask people like Tom are so they can help make things better for them and the young people they work with.

Neil Tolan supports everything Tom says.

“As the center manager, it is a constant game of finding funds from multiple sources to get enough money to keep people like Tom here for one/two years at a time. There is no direct source to fund his role and this means there is always uncertainty of whether we can find the money or not. Tom could easily leave here and find much better paid work but he is deep in the work he does and would never walk away from the boys he works with or at least ensures that when he does leave, the role is set up for success for the right person to step into.”

Neil explains further about the impact Tom has here with the young people he works with.

“Tom is a legend, what he does here, who he is, the love and care and his unique skills make him almost irreplaceable. We know what we do here works, we know what we need to make it better, we just want that support from above to enable, not just at this community center, but every community center, to employ people like Tom who do make the difference in our communities for those young people who are craving the love and support and a place to feel safe and supported by role models like Tom.”

The boys are getting restless and want to go open up the gym outside. We start to wrap up our kōrero and reflect on the main messages we have discussed for the story.

I am so grateful for people like Tom. Lots of Little Fires is about giving a platform for people across society to virtually meet and hear the stories and perspectives of those who live and work in places they may not experience. My hope is that this story is an invitation for local ministers to come and meet Tom and to learn more about what they can do to support the amazing mahi he does and can continue to do for young people in the Nawton community.

I ask the boys for a few words about Tom. Their words speak for themselves about the impact he has…

“Well, Tom's always been a secondary father figure for me because he's always there, always has the best advice, always knows what to say when you are feeling down and yeah, he's always a good vibe, good person to be around. Yeah.”

“Tom never judges any of us. He's one of the nicest people I know. Anytime I have something that I want to tell someone, but I dunno who to tell. I just go straight to Tom and he'll always have the best advice.”

“If you ask him anything, he'll probably give you just a straight up answer. A pretty good one. I reckon he gives pretty good laugh advice.”

“Probably if Tom wasn't here, I'd probably be a little fat chubby boy at home! Eating wagging school and yeah. Oh yeah. I make way better life choices now that I've been coming here and with Tom and all that. Yeah.”

“If Tom wasn't here, Nawton would be pretty empty to me because Tom was a big part of my life. Yeah. Tom has been there a lot for me whenever I needed him and for the boys as well, so yeah.”